Pugging ICC outside of the guild
Bumping up this post as a general reminder 
The last few weeks I have noticed people pugging Icecrown Citadel. I would like to remind everyone that we have a rule against pugging progress content, as clearly stated in our Code of Conduct, which you agreed to when you joined Lemmings:
Although we are a casual guild, we still raid regularly. Some considerable effort is made by people in the guild to make these raids happen, and whereas we won't pressure people whatsoever to attend them (if you dont want to go thats totally fine), it really isnt looked favourably upon if you lock yourself to these instances with another group, therefore making it harder for the guild raids to go ahead. The reasoning is if everyone did this, the guild would rarely raid together (which is something we set out to do), and therefore as a guild we could deteriorate to little more than a glorified chat channel.
Therefore we ask you as a guildie to consider the guild as a whole, before going on any raids with people outside the guild. Sometimes we don't have a problem with this (say the guild has finished/wont be raiding that instance that week) but before joining up with another group, we'd really appreciate you ok it with the guildleader or an officer by talking to them in game, or dropping a message, on the website, or by other means.
We organise ICC10 as guild-runs, and leave you to pug Naxxramas, Ulduar, OS, Onyxia, and VOA. You are welcome to organise runs to these instances in our guild calendar too- we will appreciate it especially, as it helps gear guildies up
Not written in our Code of Conduct is the rule that we expect you not to run ICC25 either. Besides the above reasons for being saved, we are a community focused guild, and for a lot of us, exploring content, seeing new bosses, learning tactics is something we want to experience together, not solo with strangers. If it's only better loot you want, perhaps you should reconsider the (type of) guild you're in.
As stated in the quote, exceptions can be made, but we expect you to involve us and send us a tell. If we see you raid only with other guilds, never see you sign up for our own guild runs, and never hear from you, we will probably ask you to leave until a time when you feel you can commit to our community. I hope you understand this is not a rule we decided on to "bully anyone", but to maintain a constructive community atmosphere, and to avoid the crises other guilds are going through since the introduction of the improved LFG system.
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And.... Lemming raids are the
Submitted by Dommens on Sat, 06/03/2010 - 22:32.
And.... Lemming raids are the best. so there are no reasons to pug the current raids which the lemmings are doing
Raised a question
Submitted by Luzette on Sat, 06/03/2010 - 23:00.
Are you meaning that Lemmings member are not supposed to pug ICC 25 even tho Lemmings guild are not doing ICC 25? Its not a big matter to me I never pugged it, but it makes me wonder.. What is the thought behind stopping it if ppl sign up on Lemmings guildraids?
The thought behind it is that
Submitted by Wilgje on Sat, 06/03/2010 - 23:26.
The thought behind it is that the only reason to do it is better loot; and that it will take away some of the experience of seeing a new boss and a new area of the instance together. Like having a film you look forward to, that you will see with your best mate, and then finding out when you're in the theatre that your friend has already seen it with someone else. It kinda takes away a part of it, if that makes sense.
We will probably not say no if you want to run it (if you just run it by us), and if you sign up for guild raids, I imagine no officer will refuse it, but if it seems like the only interest is in loot and not in doing things together with the guild, we will wonder why you're in the guild in the first place
Although it might seem harsh
Submitted by cachaca on Sun, 07/03/2010 - 01:06.
Although it might seem harsh at first sight to discurage people to do those pugs, i can totaly see why its better to prevent peeps from doing them.
The last few months ive been helping a guildfreind out starting his own social raiding guild.
In this guild it was,nt actively stopped that peeps pugged contend that was on progression (10 and 25 man.)
Lots of people said it did,nt matter because they wouldnt have been able to come on the guildsraid that week, or well it was the 25 man etc.
But the truth was, that because the boundries werent there, those pugs became like a sort of subculture within the guild.
More and more people started looking in our guild for people to fill up that last spot in there pug.
Slowely taking away the sence of comunety and going for the same goal together.
Still this guild i,m talking about is a nice one, like many other social guilds.
But what makes the lemmings so special is, that they gard that feeling of exploring the contend together.
Always remember your unique .
Just like everyone els (:
ToC?
Submitted by Tuanur on Sun, 07/03/2010 - 11:06.
Clear rules and I can see why they are there.
I have one question though, regarding ToC (10/25). When I joined lemmings, the ToC runs where part of the progression content and a run was organised every week. I would like to know if ToC is still part of the progres content and shouldn't be pugged? Last time a guildmember asked if someone could fill up a pug spot in ToC and I did (forgetting this rule also applied for it and it was just before reset) so that's why I'm asking.
Well.. the CoC says it's ToC
Submitted by Wilgje on Sun, 07/03/2010 - 11:15.
Well.. the CoC says it's ToC still, but I forgot to edit it in my "hurry" to write this post (contrary to popular belief I don't like writing a post like this
).
In my opinion ToC is no longer progression content as we cleared the whole instance with the guild. We'll still organise a run now and then as a 'TBD' raid on wednesdays (or another day, if this 3 week wednesday weekly+random raid doesn't work out), but there's hardly "spoilers" in there for us as a whole anymore. On tuesday the week before you will know if we will do TOC10 with the guild as that's the day we know the final setup of the raiding week to come.
TL;DR: Go ahead and pug TOC10 and TOC25
:D
Submitted by Tuanur on Sun, 07/03/2010 - 13:10.
Well.. the CoC says it's ToC still, but I forgot to edit it in my "hurry" to write this post (contrary to popular belief I don't like writing a post like this
).
In my opinion ToC is no longer progression content as we cleared the whole instance with the guild. We'll still organise a run now and then as a 'TBD' raid on wednesdays (or another day, if this 3 week wednesday weekly+random raid doesn't work out), but there's hardly "spoilers" in there for us as a whole anymore. On tuesday the week before you will know if we will do TOC10 with the guild as that's the day we know the final setup of the raiding week to come.
TL;DR: Go ahead and pug TOC10 and TOC25
Thanks Wilgje for clearing that up.
I'm a little confused by
Submitted by Tixil on Sun, 07/03/2010 - 14:31.
I'm a little confused by this. Perhaps you could clear it up for me via this example:
Last night a friend's guild asked me if I wanted to come on the first part of their fresh ICC10 run. I politely refused because I didn't feel like a late night of raiding, but now its got me thinking - was I actually not allowed to attend anyway due to the Lemmings CoC? It didn't cross my mind because I was a reserve for our guild run on Thursday, and wouldn't be able to attend the follow up on Monday anyway. As a result I won't be saved to ICC before the reset.
Now this is the first (and probably only) time this situation has arisen, but if it were to happen again I'd like to be clear in my mind just why I'm turning them down.
Simply put: you wouldn't be
Submitted by Wilgje on Sun, 07/03/2010 - 14:42.
Simply put: you wouldn't be allowed, as who knows, perhaps there would be a last run on tuesday if we made good progress on monday that you could sign up for, that you would then be saved for. Or there might be a way for you to participate on the monday run after all.
But this is why we want you to run it by an officer. You can tell the officer there's a tiny chance you'd be able to run with the guild and that you'd like to help your friends out as an exception, to get their guild started in ICC. There's a very high chance that the officer will wish you good luck and have fun.
It's like changing specs; we consider it a matter of decency that you involve us with things that can have a huge impact on the guild. We do a lot of organising all around to make things run smoothly and we need all the info we can get to build decisions on. So leaving us in the dark about important things like being saved, changing spec, changing mains, makes it harder for us. We want to be a team as a guild, so all efforts go towards that basically.
OK Wiggles, thanks for the
Submitted by Tixil on Sun, 07/03/2010 - 14:50.
OK Wiggles, thanks for the info/reminder.
imho, since we havent cleared
Submitted by Murdarion on Sun, 07/03/2010 - 16:58.
imho, since we havent cleared icc and thats what were going for pugging it oustide of the guild is a big no no even on 25mans...
that being said what is the rule for alts ? i mean i raid only with murdarion but how about Sainjan or Sanjan can i still pug content with them even tho im running a icc raid with murdarion ?
Re:
Submitted by Luzette on Tue, 09/03/2010 - 22:17.
that being said what is the rule for alts ? i mean i raid only with murdarion but how about Sainjan or Sanjan can i still pug content with them even tho im running a icc raid with murdarion ?
I been waiting to see an answer to your question, but none has come.
I think that is still under same as the rest Wilge wrote, exploring new continent without the guild.
But the weekly raid boss quest in ICC is always the first one and that can not be considering to be exploring new content, since we got that one on pure farm. So that one should be clear to do with alts in 10 player mode if i get the reason behind not pugging ICC right...?
It took me a few days to
Submitted by Wilgje on Tue, 09/03/2010 - 23:30.
It took me a few days to really consider all options, which is why the reply took a while. But my answer was going to be: please run it by an officer, the odds of them saying no are really small, but we really appreciate you taking the rest of us into account.
Like 1%
Just a lil imput from an
Submitted by Drakinkoren on Tue, 13/07/2010 - 23:29.
Just a lil imput from an altoholic. Atm Ive got 5 toons that are geared enough for ICC 10/25man.Personally considering all the effort the upper echelons of the guild have put into organising a raid schedule that accomodates as many people as poss also the fact that as a guild we are having regular alt runs into icc and starting 25 mans I think its a small price to pay not pugging 10/25 man on any of my toons.