An Update Re: ICC10/ToC10 and the Weekly Boss Quest
Our raiding rules currently mean that we ask our raiders not to become raid locked with current content. For us at the moment, current content includes ToC10 and ICC10. Every week we run at least one raid to each of these locations and expect raiders to not become raid-locked with another group.
With the advent of the Weekly Quests the time has come to remind guildies of this rule. At the moment there are a number of Weekly Boss targets that are located in current content for us. Thankfully, most Weekly Boss targets are located in previous content that is PUG’able (including Ulduar, for the avoidance of doubt). Also, we will continue to include a trip to kill the Weekly Boss where possible, and as early as possible, in any given reset period.
We therefore ask that, if you wish to be an active part of our raids for a given reset period, you refrain from becoming raid locked with either ToC10 or ICC10 whilst we still have events planned to attend said instances. If, after we have run our raids for that reset period, you still are not raid locked and you wish to PUG ICC10 or ToC10 to complete the Weekly Quest then you need to seek the approval of an officer first. This is because we may be planning an additional run within the reset and do not want to limit our pool of available raiders.
This is simply a post to re-affirm our rules regarding PUG’ing current content in light of the Weekly Quests.
I cannot imagine people refusing to sign up for “raid #2” simply because they wish to remain unlocked and PUG the Weekly Quest before the reset … Ultimately, I imagine most people would prefer the opportunity to kill new bosses with the guild at the expense of a few badges, and, well being brutally honest I would expect most Lemmings to feel the same way.
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What about 25 man versions of
Submitted by Coyy on Fri, 05/02/2010 - 16:16.
What about 25 man versions of the raids for instance; this week it was marrowgar which has been cleared by lemmings. My name is down for the next run in ICC so i wont even consider the 10 man version until monday at least but what happens if i get the opportunity to run the 25 man version for the weekly. Is that covered?
Things to do this month; level my rogue , kill horde and bake cookies
Well, I know my opinion on
Submitted by matzy on Fri, 05/02/2010 - 16:28.
Well, I know my opinion on this subject, but not the opinion of other officers if I am honest.
In my opinion, the 25 man raids are not current content for us and therefore I would be happy with people PUG'ing the same for the Weekly Quest (only)... as long as it didn't impact that persons attendance of our 10 man raids.
Agreed. Personally I don't
Submitted by Wilgje on Fri, 05/02/2010 - 21:01.
Agreed. Personally I don't want to see stuff before I do it with the guild (and 25-mans content is pretty much the same-looking with similar tactics as 10-mans content) but if people want their badges I'm fine with them going that week.
Sooo???
Submitted by Tuanur on Sat, 06/02/2010 - 01:28.
Agreed. Personally I don't want to see stuff before I do it with the guild (and 25-mans content is pretty much the same-looking with similar tactics as 10-mans content) but if people want their badges I'm fine with them going that week.
So let me get this (not sure if I understand you here). You say we also should not do the 25 man version since it is similar to the 10 man version if the 25 man version has not been done in the guild yet?
My take on it
Submitted by Tibal on Sat, 06/02/2010 - 02:04.
Is that Wilgje doesn't like doing the 25m content before doing the 10m version of it with guild. And saying that the weekly raid bosses are all cleared one way or another currently by guild in 10m mode.
Ah
Submitted by Tuanur on Sat, 06/02/2010 - 02:12.
Is that Wilgje doesn't like doing the 25m content before doing the 10m version of it with guild. And saying that the weekly raid bosses are all cleared one way or another currently by guild in 10m mode.
Ah, so if the content is new or struggeling, Wilgje also doesn't like it to be done in the 25 man version. For example doing festergut or Rotface in 25 man mode while we haven't downed Festergut and (at least I) haven't had an attempt at Rotface, they are bosses that also may not be downed in 25 man? Correct?
Just to clarify what
Submitted by Neti on Sat, 06/02/2010 - 02:58.
Just to clarify what currently is the official guild rule, this is what our Code of Conduct says about raiding 'outside' our regular guild runs:
"Although we are a casual guild, we still raid regularly. Some considerable effort is made by people in the guild to make these raids happen, and whereas we won't pressure people whatsoever to attend them (if you dont want to go thats totally fine), it really isnt looked favourably upon if you lock yourself to these instances with another group, therefore making it harder for the guild raids to go ahead. The reasoning is if everyone did this, the guild would rarely raid together (which is something we set out to do), and therefore as a guild we could deteriorate to little more than a glorified chat channel. Therefore we ask you as a guildie to consider the guild as a whole, before going on any raids with people outside the guild. Sometimes we don't have a problem with this (say the guild has finished/wont be raiding that instance that week) but before joining up with another group, we'd really appreciate you ok it with the guildleader or an officer by talking to them in game, or dropping a message, on the website, or by other means."
What Matzy is stating above is that in the case of the Weekly Boss quests, this rule should be read as follows:
"If you wish to be an active part of our raids for a given reset period, you refrain from becoming raid locked with either ToC10 or ICC10 whilst we still have events planned to attend said instances. If, after we have run our raids for that reset period, you still are not raid locked and you wish to PUG ICC10 or ToC10 to complete the Weekly Quest then you need to seek the approval of an officer first. This is because we may be planning an additional run within the reset and do not want to limit our pool of available raiders.
So, to answer Coyy's question, it's ok to do the Weekly Quest in a 25-man PUG as long as that doesn't interfere with your (possible) availability for our own 10-man raid.
Wilgje's addition refers to doing a 25-man run where you down bosses which we haven't downed as a guild yet. In the past we used to have an explicit guild rule which stated that it was strictly forbidden to try to down a boss which we hadn't downed as a guild yet. That rule has been removed quite a while ago, but on a personal level we still feel that we should do content as a guild first.
Note that the above doesn't really apply to the Weekly Quests anymore, as we already have downed all those bosses as a guild.
"Final answer"
Submitted by Wilgje on Sat, 06/02/2010 - 15:27.
Sorry for the confusion, it's been a few hectic days (still is) for me.
The plain answer:
We understand people want the weekly boss done. But we also want to run things as a guild, to experience bossfights and the instance together. As such we ask that you refrain from doing ICC-25 while we are busy with exploring it in 10-man, unless it is the weekly boss quest.
I gave my personal preference above while we were discussing it among the officers which made for a bit of confusion, apologies for that. The Code of Conduct part that discusses doing pugs stems from TBC and the raiding content was very different to Wrath's.
We are a 10-man guild first and foremost and will occasionally try to run a 25-man just for kicks, but our emphasis is in doing it together in smaller, friendlier (and less laggier 
) groups.
We have now discussed it and I hope this final answer is clear
Agree to
Submitted by Tibal on Sat, 06/02/2010 - 18:52.
Agree to the less laggier bit. And which icc bosses are weekly bosses? marrowgar and death whisper? and thats it?
http://www.wowwiki.com/Weekly
Submitted by matzy on Sat, 06/02/2010 - 20:49.
http://www.wowwiki.com/Weekly_quest - who told me Deathwhisper was now a quest target? I still dont see it anywhere.
there are also additional weekly quests within ICC now since 3.3.2 but these are raid ID specific I think.
lady
Submitted by Tuanur on Sat, 06/02/2010 - 21:16.
http://www.wowwiki.com/Weekly_quest - who told me Deathwhisper was now a quest target? I still dont see it anywhere.
there are also additional weekly quests within ICC now since 3.3.2 but these are raid ID specific I think.
That was me. A friend said he had the lady as a weekly. But not sure if it is true though (doubt it since wowwikki doesn't mention it).
so far the weeklies have been
Submitted by Daz on Sat, 06/02/2010 - 21:22.
so far the weeklies have been based on a one boss kill, so maybee your friend was mistaken? one ICC boss is enough confusion,
According to Wowhead Lord
Submitted by Neti on Sat, 06/02/2010 - 22:03.
According to Wowhead Lord Marrowgar is the objective of one of the weekly raids, but Lady Deathwisper is not: http://www.wowhead.com/?search=must+die#quests:0-2+1
tbh I didnt think
Submitted by matzy on Sun, 07/02/2010 - 02:00.
tbh I didnt think Deathwhisper was a target - when Tuanur mentioned it I thought perhaps they added some new ones, but no.
Hmm i have to say i have been
Submitted by Coyy on Wed, 10/02/2010 - 14:36.
Hmm i have to say i have been left with a little confusion in this matter.
I missed out on doing the weekly (Lord Marrowgar) as from what i gathered from reading this thread, the 10 man was done last week but because someone may be called in to the second raid on the monday ICC 10 needed to be kept clear (totally understandable and have no problems with that). Although the Weekly boss does seem to reset on a tuesday.
25 man ICC isn't an option as we are still working our way through the 10 man (again i understand this)
The confusion is that if anyone misses the first ICC run where marrowgar is the weekly boss, they will almost inevitably miss out altogether that week. Is this the case or am i reading wrong?
Sorry if i am reading it wrong, but i am trying to get T10 currently and i am concerned about missing out on 5 badges from the weekly when i dont have time to do the daily every day.
Things to do this month; level my rogue , kill horde and bake cookies
Partly right
Submitted by Wilgje on Wed, 10/02/2010 - 16:05.
The confusion is that if anyone misses the first ICC run where marrowgar is the weekly boss, they will almost inevitably miss out altogether that week. Is this the case or am i reading wrong?
You're partly right; but this is not a hard rule, we ask everyone to come to an officer and just ask if you want to pug a run. We won't say no if you can't make the second run, are not on the lineup to the second run, but as you understand will do our best to guard the guild run being able to go ahead. We hope that people will prefer running with the guild and helping the guild progress on the second raid night above badges.
That said next time we see on tuesday that it's an ICC boss for the weekly, I will ask Neti to reschedule the raidweek so it's ICC on wednesday and thursday so there is more room for people that want to pug the boss and haven't been able to attend the guildrun. The way the week was set up last week did not make it easier on anyone and I will do my best to keep a better eye on the raiding schedule.
I also missed out on the five
Submitted by Daz on Wed, 10/02/2010 - 17:27.
I also missed out on the five badges on my pally last week, it's not ideal, but it's a small sacrifice compared to what some people put into the guild behind the scenes.
Its tricky having two active toons, but that's my choice and responsability I guess, I'm sure that now this has been addressed, we can try to steer round this (rare) problem in the future,
it's great to see the guild up and raiding strong again, and the frost badges are really needed to up the gear, so that we can progress forward in Icc. Losing 5 badges isn't good, but it's not often it's going to conflict with our weekly raid.
I understand the guild's
Submitted by Tixil on Wed, 10/02/2010 - 17:28.
I understand the guild's stance on making sure people aren't saved to ICC10/TOC10 - and that is fine, but how come the trip to ICC tonight starts with Ulduar for the weekly raid? Isn't that unfairly penalising players that haven't signed up for the ICC run?
It's mainly to get most of
Submitted by Wilgje on Wed, 10/02/2010 - 17:35.
It's mainly to get most of the headache for organising weekly event raids over for the people who are raiding anyway, Tix - everyone is free to pug Ulduar, anyway.
I will keep an eye on guildchat and set up a second run if people want to go, but if you want to organise a weekly-raid-run to Ulduar, you're really welcome to put an event into our calendar! We'd applaud the initiative. I haven't done the raid yet and I will save myself for helping guildies with it
Please don't take it as a
Submitted by Tixil on Wed, 10/02/2010 - 17:49.
Please don't take it as a complaint, Wiggles. We all appreciate the work the officer team do behind the scenes, so I'm certainly not having a go. I was just after some clarification.
No don't get me wrong i am
Submitted by Coyy on Wed, 10/02/2010 - 18:09.
No don't get me wrong i am not having a moan either. I am just explaining my particular situation which may be similar to ther peoples in the guild.
I have spent under a week farming gold for the Battered Hilt (i had to get approximatly 7k gold so it was a real grind
). On sunday i spent the night fishing for raid food, Monday i did the questline for the Battered Hilt which included 2 pretty awful pugs to PoS and FoS as well as a multiple wipe 2 man run in HoR to "subdue" the sword so i haven't had any time really since probably last thursday to do the "Random" heroic which has limited my emblem collecting. So missing out on the 5 from the weekly as well means i am well behind in my quest for pewpew.
It's not about personal gain, i am not loot-mad but on the other hand i also want us as a guild to progress in ICC and this will mean constant self-improvment of which frost emblems are now a big part.
That all said, i understand the guilds leadership are doing all they can to maximise emblem collection for the guild members and like Wilgje has said the Marrowgar situation is rare.
Things to do this month; level my rogue , kill horde and bake cookies
Tixil, it's not penalising
Submitted by Neti on Wed, 10/02/2010 - 18:10.
Tixil, it's not penalising players who haven't signed up for the Wednesday run, it's giving guildies an easy way to do the weekly raid quest with the guild. This was explained over a month ago, here: http://lemmings-of-the-light.net/node/2743.
personally I think the way we
Submitted by matzy on Wed, 10/02/2010 - 19:34.
personally I think the way we do it now is the easiest and fairest for all involved. It may mean on the odd occasion people missing out on 5 frost badges (I missed out on this last week too), but putting that in perspective thats only 2 and a bit random instances to recover and it shouldnt happen very often (i.e perhaps only a few bosses where it may be an issue).
Coyy, Tix, I didn't think you
Submitted by Wilgje on Wed, 10/02/2010 - 19:42.
Coyy, Tix, I didn't think you were having a go at me, I must admit I *am* a bit of a people pleaser and I find it hard (especially these last days) to say how I feel without being afraid of upsetting people
But no worries, you guys were asking questions, we're here to answer them 
(Thanks Neti and Matzy for helping out)
P.S. Marrowgar didnt'give me his badges either